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Power Egg
Member Lvl: 10
Egg Points: 16563
Posts: 1922
AIM
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| Posted: May 15, 2007 6:26 p.m. - Subject: |
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Quote: if us atheists/agnostics (same difference)
what? not even.
im agnostic, i just dont promote it. it means that you feel it’s too early to tell whether there is a god or not.
quote from wiki:
Quote: Agnostics claim either that it is not possible to have absolute or certain knowledge of God or gods; or, alternatively, that while certainty may be possible, they personally have no knowledge |
Power Egg
Member Lvl: 10
Egg Points: 16563
Posts: 1922
AIM
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| Posted: May 15, 2007 6:38 p.m. - Subject: |
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yeah i know what you mean, fair enough.
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Power Egg
Member Lvl: 10
Egg Points: 81528
Posts: 4443
BLOCKED, EXPIRES Dec 27, 2008
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| Posted: May 16, 2007 6:58 p.m. - Subject: |
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the reason why i stop believing in god as a child, was because they said that dead people go to heaven (and i tought it was the sky and then they stood on the clouds)
how r u gonna fit so many people up there?
what if an airplane passes by?
i neever took the metaphore and here i am an atheist now
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Normal Egg
Member Lvl: 2
Egg Points: 147
Posts: 6
AIM YIM
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| Posted: May 15, 2007 8:23 p.m. - Subject: |
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Im just going to say if your saying theres no God then what do you do when you die.
And in another way if there was no God in some sorts would we live by rules or live by anarchy?
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Normal Egg
Member Lvl: 5
Egg Points: 808
Posts: 616
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| Posted: May 15, 2007 8:34 p.m. - Subject: |
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Oh for fucks sake...
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Master Egg
Member Lvl: 36
Egg Points: 1762649
Posts: 4076
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| Posted: May 15, 2007 8:44 p.m. - Subject: |
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Fuck you and fuck this thread.
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Normal Egg
Member Lvl: 2
Egg Points: 147
Posts: 6
AIM YIM
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| Posted: May 15, 2007 8:50 p.m. - Subject: |
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hmm well do you have...dreams in your life then
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Master Egg
Member Lvl: 43
Egg Points: 524374
Posts: 8380
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| Posted: May 16, 2007 7:06 p.m. - Subject: |
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I do believe in god but not in the traditional style. I dont believe theres a heaven or hell. I believe theres some form of cycle our spirits go threw that is to complex for our minds to comprehend as were humans. We will probably never know. I was an atheist for years but from a lot of reading I have changed my views.
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Normal Egg
Member Lvl: 8
Egg Points: 2219
Posts: 3402
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| Posted: May 15, 2007 9:03 p.m. - Subject: |
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Since you pipe up saying there "is no God!!11!!"
Explain these things to me:
Why do we have a conscience? i.e. How come we know what is right and wrong?
How did we get here? Since you KNOW there is no God, you obviously must know that. Right?
How did the universe get here? Something that is infinite. Who/What created that? Or how did it come to be?
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Power Egg
Member Lvl: 25
Egg Points: 746524
Posts: 3248
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| Posted: May 15, 2007 10:00 p.m. - Subject: |
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johns face has raised some valid points.
as for your hell questions we jews have a totally different belief which would take a extremely long time to explain, but I just wanted to tell you that the jews believe that the maximum time you can be in hell is 12 months.
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Master Egg
Member Lvl: 43
Egg Points: 524374
Posts: 8380
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| Posted: May 16, 2007 7:08 p.m. - Subject: |
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Quote: Since you pipe up saying there "is no God!!11!!"
Explain these things to me:
Why do we have a conscience? i.e. How come we know what is right and wrong?
How did we get here? Since you KNOW there is no God, you obviously must know that. Right?
How did the universe get here? Something that is infinite. Who/What created that? Or how did it come to be?
I dont think science or religion has enough to back up any of those questions right now.
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Master Egg
Member Lvl: 30
Egg Points: 1104546
Posts: 240
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| Posted: May 15, 2007 10:32 p.m. - Subject: |
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Quote: I was wondering , if us atheists/agnostics (same difference) go to "hell" and burn for eternity , won’t we get use to it? Or won’t we deteriate? Also , after 100-200 years of it do you think "god" will get bored? Seriously , what would you do in "heaven" for eternity? Worship "god"?
I could go into it, but I don’t want to... I’ll suggest you read the Divine Comedy and leave it at that.
Quote: Also , I’ve been researching and seen alot of teh rebels creating myspace groups and what not , how much you bet that they still celebrate christmas and easter?I celebrated both , but I have recently opened my eyes and have become rational.
Just so you know, Christmas and Easter don’t come from Christianity originally.
Also, you can still celebrate and/or have a good time with friends/family on holidays without supporting the religious aspects of those holidays.
Quote: Why do we have a conscience? i.e. How come we know what is right and wrong?
The neocortex would be the scientific explanation.
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Normal Egg
Member Lvl: 8
Egg Points: 2219
Posts: 3402
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| Posted: May 15, 2007 11:00 p.m. - Subject: |
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Quote UK-SWAT: Depends, personally i believe that if you are good then you go to heaven not matter what your religion- christianity is just a way of keeping on track
That is exactly what i believe.
Quote Numinous: The neocortex would be the scientific explanation.
That’s a scientific perspective, i want a religious perspective.
The two can’t be mixed. They are two extremes.
Well. OK. But then how does the neocortex know what is right and wrong?
Who decided what is right and wrong in the first place?
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Power Egg
Member Lvl: 25
Egg Points: 746524
Posts: 3248
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| Posted: May 15, 2007 11:17 p.m. - Subject: |
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Quote: Quote UK-SWAT:
Depends, personally i believe that if you are good then you go to heaven not matter what your religion- christianity is just a way of keeping on track
That is exactly what i believe.
just for the record judisim is the only religion that gives separate comandments for those other than that religion and if you follow them you go to heaven.
idont remember all 7 but here are the ones I remember:
1) no killing
2)no adultery
3)you must believe in only one god
4)you must make laws and courthouses
5)you shall not worship false idols
6)
7)
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Master Egg
Member Lvl: 30
Egg Points: 1104546
Posts: 240
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| Posted: May 15, 2007 11:32 p.m. - Subject: |
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Quote: That’s a scientific perspective, i want a religious perspective.
The two can’t be mixed. They are two extremes.
You seemed to be asking how we can have consciences without "God", so I gave the scientific viewpoint on it.
Quote: Well. OK. But then how does the neocortex know what is right and wrong?
Who decided what is right and wrong in the first place?
Our brains go from the inside out : R-complex, limbic system, and then neocortex. The neocortex is what allows us to have what is defined as "abstract thought", other animals/mammals have partially developed neocortexes (those of humans are fully developed, but they could still grow bigger).
I believe what chose right and wrong would be our "mirror neurons", basically all of humanity combined decided... by having empathy/sympathy for other people (which can result in both positive and negative outcomes, and then the advancement from both).
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Normal Egg
Member Lvl: 2
Egg Points: 147
Posts: 6
AIM YIM
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| Posted: May 16, 2007 7:32 p.m. - Subject: |
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I guess i can c whos gonna be a virgin forever...
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Normal Egg
Member Lvl: 5
Egg Points: 808
Posts: 616
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| Posted: May 16, 2007 8:24 p.m. - Subject: |
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I believe what chose right and wrong would be our "mirror neurons", basically all of humanity combined decided... by having empathy/sympathy for other people (which can result in both positive and negative outcomes, and then the advancement from both).
You use a lot of fancy words and think you can get away with bullshit? "mirror neurons" didn’t decide personal beliefs of right and wrong. That is for the individual to decide. By your theory ALL humans have developed emotional traits that they ALL share, which is outrageous. This debate right NOW proves that is incorrect. This debate right NOW proves that consciousness is the uniqueness of a single person, and their ability to form their own opinions, not the ones "humanity combined" decided for them.
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Normal Egg
Member Lvl: 4
Egg Points: 450
Posts: 393
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| Posted: May 16, 2007 8:29 p.m. - Subject: |
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Dear newbizzle,
You are not as open-eyed as you seem to think. In fact, I would go so far to say that you are as bad, if not worse than the people who follow the bible as if it were fact. You are looking at religion with too objective of an eye. Of course you would get bored in heaven, of course nobody is actually going to be tortured forever in hell, of course Jonah didn’t love in a whale for 3 days...but that is completely irrelevant. The bible is not intended to scare people into doing good by making them think they will suffer some outlandish punishment if they do not abide, it is intended to remind people that being a good person will eventually reward them in some way. The fact that it does this reminding through stories that include impossible and unreasonable events does not diminish the basic point that is being conveyed. Try not to look at the stories and "facts" in religion as the basis of the religion, try to look at the lessons behind them as the basis. Religion gives people a reason to be their best no matter the circumstances.
As applies to anything, moderation is key on this issue. Taking every word of the bible literally does not lead to a particularly healthy life. However, brushing off all of the lessons told because the stories used to tell them are fake is also detrimental.
Moral of the story is that you and your godisimaginary.com friends can waste as much of your time as you want using science and reason to prove that there is no god, but no mater how much you prove, and no matter how many people listen to your arguments, religion will always prevail. Why? Because it is not the truth of bible stories or the existence of god that ultimately defines religion, it is the lessons taught.
Love,
Boondoggle
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Master Egg
Member Lvl: 30
Egg Points: 1104546
Posts: 240
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| Posted: May 16, 2007 9:51 p.m. - Subject: |
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Quote: You use a lot of fancy words and think you can get away with bullshit?
Exactly which words were "fancy"?
Quote: "mirror neurons" didn’t decide personal beliefs of right and wrong. That is for the individual to decide. By your theory ALL humans have developed emotional traits that they ALL share, which is outrageous. This debate right NOW proves that is incorrect.
I did not state or imply that all humans develop shared emotional traits. I did not say it was right in my opinion, nor did I claim it as fact. You pulled that conclusion from your ass, but that’s okay, I’ll explain what I meant...
Basically mirror neurons are what allow us to determine what another person is thinking, what they are feeling, what they are doing or about to do, etc... They allow us to understand someone else’s thought processes because we associate them with our own, and with those of others that we are familiar with.
From this understanding we can predict the way others will react to what we do, we can see what hurts them, what makes them happy, etc....
Quote: I believe what chose right and wrong would be our "mirror neurons", basically all of humanity combined decided... by having empathy/sympathy for other people (which can result in both positive and negative outcomes, and then the advancement from both).
If you re-read my post maybe you’ll get the point...
Using the knowledge of how to manipulate the emotions of others we can either do good or do bad, and we see the consequences for whichever direction we choose, that is how the entire human race has come up with the basis for "right and wrong" (it changes as we do).
Quote: This debate right NOW proves that consciousness is the uniqueness of a single person, and their ability to form their own opinions, not the ones "humanity combined" decided for them.
I never said people do not have unique/personal morals either, I just said that the general line between "good" and "bad" was drawn collectively by all people through our observations of each other.
We all have individual opinions and restrictions concerning our beliefs, but together we have formed a common ground over time.
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